Hi Gerber! I would agree with you on that point, that "The relationship is different from human to human, even in ourselves
s̷o̷m̷e̷t̷i̷m̷e̷s̷ so much of the time
". And for myself, too, because I am my own subject and can basically observe myself all the time, so much (most?) of the learning comes from that.
I will try to come up with an example(s). I will try to combine this with my reply to willow's two most recent posts.
I think, willow, you make some good points, based on some observations in life, and things seem to be that way you say, virtually, everywhere we look.
I might not have very good counter-arguments! But, I hope you can bear with me as I work through my own thoughts. I'll try my best.
Here are a few points you have made:
- it is impossible that we are not influenced by what we see.
- everyone reacts differently depending on personality, choices, experience of life.
- there is a lot of times cause and effect caused by environment.
- it is not in my control.
And you gave a few examples as to why these things might be true. I had to think about whether I, for myself, think these things are true or not.
1. it is impossible that we are not influenced by what we see.
I don't know. Is it impossible? I did say in my first post, that I agree, we are
influenced! But then I go on to say that we are not
influenced in the way that we assume that we are influenced.
If I've understood you correctly, I think you are saying that "marketing makes us want to buy things, so this means that we are influenced by marketing."
I have to say though, I think (I am making a presumption!), I really almost never buy things based on advertisements alone (I despise YouTube ads
) and I often try not
to buy those things specifically. But this is just one case in a million, so let's move my example aside.
2. everyone reacts differently depending on personality, choices, experience of life.
For myself the point of confusion is here – it's really an artful deception in life! A reaction
can always look
like an influenced action
. And an action
like a reaction, because
there was something that happened before
that final action/reaction.
I would ask, "Could it be that a reaction
was in actual fact not simply an action
OK, I'm hurting my own head here. If any of that doesn't make sense at all, let me try to formulate my point differently in the next paragraph.
3. there is a lot of times cause and effect caused by environment.
I hope you've played with playdough before. I thought this was a pretty nice way to explain it to myself!
The Play-Doh company calls this a Play-Doh Fun Factory tool.
Let's say the human (perhaps things like, personality and experience of life) is the Fun Factory tool. And let's say that the playdough is the environment (so this could really be anything like junk food, advertisements, attractive women, etc...). And we have the rail (with the shapes) where the playdough is squished through. What is the rail? Well, it's part of the human, but I would describe it as the mind-part. If you have enough options for shapes, you can make the playdough come out any way you want really. So that's kind what life is like. You have the playdough (environment), but the shape the playdough comes out, finally, is not altogether determined by the playdough itself or even tool (the human). The rail-part which makes the shapes is important.
This is just an example and you can pick a lot of holes in this!
4. it is not in my control.
Who decides over the shapes?
I hope that example worked for you Gerber and willow. I don't know if it was a good one, since it's not a life example.
I have to stop here, because have to go, but I'll leave you a few questions.
Where is the influence formed?
Where do the decisions on how to react to the influences happen?
Does the person you are have any influence over