Examining thoughts 'holding me back' more closely i.e. paradigmatically

Gerber 2985

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Before understanding the principles I would have various feelings of not wanting to do something or being down/depressed and so on and would look a little more closely and sometimes I would find some feeling of a belief that were there and finding that was very helpful for me because then I could respond to them with what I knew was true.

So for example. If I feel like I can't go do something small, like I have to fill out a form for school that will take 2-3 minutes and I keep pushing it off. I have noticed that there is a feeling that I CAN'T possibly spend the time doing it. I am so so busy. Finding that is helpful because though the feeling is SO strong but it's just so not true.

If I feel down/depressed, I 'look around' and I notice that there is a feeling that life is no good, things are bad, maybe I am very unworthy (whatever that means) and so on.
Once I find those, i can answer them back with the truth and that is very helpful. I can't necessarily FEEL differently but I don't have to follow that trajectory.

I did this for years before coming to the principles but I dismissed it because afterwards I STILL felt bad so I 'knew' that i must be wrong. The world MUST be bad, I must be 'unworthy' and i certainly should NOT be doing that activity because there certainly isn't enough time. I felt it.

Coming to the principles I understood my experience, that I was experiencing thinking/feeling that was momentary and the messages they espoused weren't necessarily true.
That I was able to follow what I knew intellectually while the feeling might remain.

So that is kind of what I have been 'doing' in the last few years.

But there was something that wasn't adding up to me. The work involved. When I was in those feelings, the only way I could look to be able to produce or not get entrenched would be to look for underlying beliefs. But I also knew that my experience couldn't be coming from wrong beliefs. That's not how it works no more than that experience can come from events.

That would be outside in.
And yet, practically I continue to find that it's helpful to have this information.
And of course, no one is saying that I CAN'T or may not look in this direction.

But I am continuing to look around at the structure here. What is this all about. How does this fit into the Psychology Formula.
I am open to hearing what anyone has to say about this.

What I saw a glimmer of this morning is so far:
Based on the free training DLFS, I realized that I am used to looking up the outside in ladder to feel better, to be able to do things (i.e. not have the feeling that says that i can't) and so on. And that I am more interested in looking towards the IO formula NOT as I thought in the past to feel better (top of the OI ladder) but...i find it hard to explain because yes ultimately I want to feel better. But I saw something.

So I DO want to feel better and be able to do things and WOULD want to look at those beliefs so that I can dismantle them and thus be able to function more efficiently and yet what I saw was a glimmer of that at those moments I am in a momentary experience which is NOT inside out. It doesn't have the qualities of the inside out. In the inside out, i won't HAVE those beliefs organically. I don't NEED to find beliefs, dismantle them and THEN i will feel ok and be able to do things. That is more staying in the outside in. In that model I am seeing my wellbeing dependent on me witch hunting, finding wrong beliefs and THEN i will be ok. Wrong beliefs being the source of my lack of wellbeing.

And yet, it WAS helpful seeing those beliefs. And i felt like if I don't look for them or am not aware of them so I will be losing out in my growth, in understanding inaccurate beliefs. I didn't want to lose that growth.

hmm
well anyhow, what I saw this morning was a flash of a thought that seems helpful.
that YES those beliefs are WISDOM of the inside out. That was the flash.
I don't yet know what that means and maybe this is all not helpful but it seemed to me that there was something there.

Perhaps this whole thread is NOT a look at truth but a hidden way to know WHAT TO DO in the moment and I am happy to see that also but that is what I have so far.
Thank you.
 

Brett Chitty

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I really enjoyed reading :love:. There's a lot of insightful comments there.

Beliefs are only given life when it's not seen as a Thought. But when you see it as a belief, as you already have an excellent predisposition about "where" the beliefs are (or what a belief is), then the beliefs lose their power because I think you know they can only exist outside of your knowing.
Here comes an internal world with fewer and fewer beliefs and more helpful and practical knowledge!

Thanks for sharing with the community here - appreciated!
 

Gerber 2985

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!! Belief's are something emotional?
and what I am really referring to is KNOWLEDGE?
hmm that sounds big.

I wonder than if I have my original question that was bothering me.
But I think my understanding was that i was feeling better BECAUSE of the new knowledge that I saw,
but how could that be? i don't NEED anything to feel better. My thinking is independent of outside circumstances.

But then I would hear knowledge/a different perspective about the situation and then I would feel better.
it seemed like that this was a good thing to be 'doing' and it would be foolish to NOT pursue that information that had me handle life in a better way.

But no one said that I can't do that or shouldn't do that.

Well what I am seeing at this moment is that seeing that information can't make feel better any more than the person insulting me can't make me hurt.
And yet, that doesn't mean that we should stay in those kinds of circumstances or that we shouldn't pursue wisdom and true perspectives.

ok that's where i'm up to now.
I think that I am looking at TO DO information vs truth. What would be my best strategy for life vs what is this understanding.
Well I would like to look at this paradigmatically and see where that goes while being truthful that I would like to have my life be more comfortable, peaceful and productive.
 
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Brett Chitty

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!! Belief's are something emotional?
Yes.
If we recall the Psychology Formula:
Thinking -> PoT = Feeling

We can replace thinking with belief because that's what a belief is.
So we end up with this:
Belief -> PoT = Feeling.

Because the PoT is present, it means that your experience/feeling is coming from within, and not from WHAT the belief was about. Now you see two dimensions of mental life. One with PoT and the other as if PoT isn't present. Therefore we can rule out this:
Belief -> Feeling.

But I think my understanding was that i was feeling better BECAUSE of the new knowledge that I saw,
but how could that be? i don't NEED anything to feel better.
That is brilliant, absolutely spectacular!
In other words, not doing anything about your feelings is precisely what opens the door to deeper thoughts and feelings. You're uncovering new knowledge as a result. It's called Wisdom. Keep it up! 😆

Suddenly the "how to handle situations" would change because you have deeper thoughts and feelings. It's still Thought. But that's the gift. Not doing anything about your own experience, or not having your own experience be the basis of how you think, is a huge part of unlocking the secrets of what "The Three Principles of Mind. Thought and Consciousness" have to offer you. And the amount of knowledge one can be given is unlimited.

Knowledge is also made of thinking, so this also applies:
Knowledge -> PoT = Feeling. Good to know!
No wonder you felt better!
Isn't it breathtaking that you felt better when you didn't need to feel better? :love: Big, big clue there.
Without the PoT, how can you have an experience of the knowledge, including new knowledge?

I think that I am looking at TO DO information vs truth. What would be my best strategy for life vs what is this understanding.
That seems like a very good distinction!
 
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Gerber 2985

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Knowledge is also made of thinking, so this also applies:
Knowledge -> PoT = Feeling. Good to know!
No wonder you felt better!
Thank you for those clarifications. I don't understand them yet but for now can you explain 'No wonder you felt better'

Usually we say that something from the outside world can't MAKE us feel a certain way.
So tinnitus ---> POT ----> feeling --doesn't have to make me feel bad.

But is knowledge different?
What does that mean? Are you saying that knowledge comes in the inside out with the qualities of the inside out so that when Knowledge (thinking about knowledge) goes into POT, then they are one and the same and i HAVE to feel wellbeing?

I just reread what I wrote above about that I originally thought that I felt better BECAUSE I saw these wise perspectives as if seeing wise ideas MAKES me feel better and that that can't be.

Or rather, i am seeing something different this moment. That I was under the mistaken impression that the reason I wasn't feeling happy was because of my wrong perspectives and then when I saw that these ideas were incorrect because of the knowledge that I saw, the new perspectives, so then i was relieved of that pain and I was able to be happy. But that can't be.

But there is a different way that it can be, that with insight, i received knowledge in the inside out and it is that wellbeing that was the experience of wellbeing.
Any sense?

I think I need more clarification.
Perhaps i am getting more complicated than it needs to be.